Fans react to SPAC’s modern dance
Thursday, February 26, 2009 5:17 AM EST
By PAUL POST, The Saratogian
SARATOGA SPRINGS — Modern dance is a welcome addition, but Saratoga Performing Arts Center should find other ways to strengthen its summer program, too, dance enthusiasts said Wednesday.
SPAC will host Mark Morris Dance Group on July 20 and 21 and Paul Taylor Dance Company on June 11 to fill the void from New York City Ballet’s shortened season, down from three weeks to two.
"These are two very important dance companies," said Denise Warner Limoli, a Skidmore College associate professor of dance. "It’s good to know SPAC is branching out. If you’re going to bring it, it’s good to draw from the top of the list."
The Morris group will have three performances, two evenings and one matinee, after city ballet’s two-week residency concludes. But it’s only two days.
"That’s awkward," Warner Limoli said. "It’s important that the public knows SPAC is committed to dance. I’d love to see them fill the schedule. Two-and-a-half weeks is less than three."
She said SPAC should try to get another ballet company to supplement New York City Ballet, even if it’s for a limited engagement or with a smaller number of dancers. She previously danced with American Ballet Theater, also based in New York.
"It would be spectacular," she said. "They’ve got some of the best dancers in the world. A small group of them is nothing to sneeze at."
Morris and Taylor have both visited Skidmore before and have performed at the Spa Little Theater. This will be their first time at SPAC’s amphitheater.
"It’s marvelous to have the opportunity to present modern dance on the main stage," said Mary DiSanto-Rose, Skidmore’s dance department chair. "I like the diversity. I hope they (SPAC) offer even more."
She expressed concern, however, that the 5,000-seat amphitheater might be overwhelming, because a crowd of 1,000 is considered good for a typical modern dance performance.
DiSanto-Rose said she doesn’t think two ballet companies, city ballet plus another, would pose a conflict at all. With proper planning, fans could spend several days in Saratoga Springs, watching one company perform and then the other.
"I don’t think one would take away from the other," she said. "It makes a nice package."
City ballet and SPAC reached a mutual agreement for a shortened 2009 season. SPAC typically lost about $1 million per year during the ballet’s three-week season. Likewise, the ballet is facing a $5.5 million deficit this season and announced recently that 11 dancers’ contracts won’t be renewed next year.
Avid ballet fan Louise Goldstein of Saratoga Springs said she’s disappointed about the reduced number of performances overall.
"Instead of another week of dance, it’s going to be two nights and one matinee," she said. "What’s going to happen on those other nights in July? It’s a loss for SPAC in a year when we should be trying to attract all the tourists we can. I have nothing against modern dance. I think they should be in the Little Theater. I hope the house sells out, but I would be shocked."
Spa City resident John DeMarco said, "I would prefer to have a three-week ballet season, but I understand the circumstances in this economy."
SPAC needs to grow beyond regional marketing and try to sell itself internationally, such as the famed Spoleto Music Festival in Italy, he said, perhaps partnering with other venues such as Tanglewood.
"You’ve got to advertise in Europe," he said. "It would be expensive. But then people would come from all over. That would draw the numbers."
Thursday, February 26, 2009
Tuesday, February 24, 2009
Roosevelt Baths debacle to continue
We understand that only one or two out of four of the baths at Roosevelt Baths with redone pipes is often operational even though a great deal of money has been spent on this already. More information on this latest mess will be posted soon.
Thursday, February 19, 2009
$300,000 of your tax dollars going down the drain at the Roosevelt Baths.
Rumor has it $300,000 of our money has been poured down the drain into the tubs at the Roosevelt Baths and they are not all being used. Seems to us letting children use the water slide and zero depth pool at the Peerless Pool and the beach at Moreau 7 days a week should be a higher priority. Not raising the fee to swim at Victoria Pool from $6 to $8 should also be a better way to spend our money.
Saturday, February 14, 2009
Saratoga State Park cutting back on beach at Moreau and Peerless Pool but has money to cut down more wonderful trees and hire a Park naturalist?
Saturday, February 14, 2009 5:16 AM EST
By PAUL POST, The Saratogian
MOREAU —Local moms are concerned about possible cutbacks at Moreau Lake State Park’s swimming beach this summer.
Parks officials are considering a proposal to keep the beach closed Thursdays and Fridays to save money in the midst of a state fiscal crisis.
The move would reduce the amount of funding needed for lifeguards.
“The agency is re-evaluating our schedule in light of these difficult economic times we’re in,” said assistant director for the Saratoga-Capital Region Robert Kuhn. “Everything is under consideration.
“No decisions have been made.”
But a fact sheet distributed by the state sounds more definite.
Amy Cantor, owner of Omelette King Catering in Saratoga Springs, learned about the possible beach cutbacks when responding to an advertisement seeking bids for park concessions.
She was sent a packet of information.
“Prospective bidders are advised that current operations for 2009 include a reduced schedule for the swimming beach at Moreau Lake,” the state said. “The beach is expected to be closed on Thursdays and Fridays throughout the summer.”
The state is facing a possible $1 billion deficit this year and Gov. David Paterson has called on all state agencies to make reductions wherever possible. Cantor said the possibility of reduced Moreau Lake scheduling is an unwelcome development.
“It’s terrible news just from a personal standpoint,” she said. “I take my son there all the time. There’s the pool at Spa State Park, but there’s no place as fun and so close as Moreau Lake. It’s the only place to go.
“The court of public opinion should weigh pretty heavily here.”
Cantor said she has several friends with young children who frequent the park regularly.
The Saratoga-Capital Region consists of 10 state parks and 10 historic sites. In December, parks officials reported that shorter seasons, reduced hours and staff cuts were among possible cost-saving measures.
In addition, state parks gets most of its revenue from golf, camping and vehicle use fees, which might all be going up.
Regional Director Alane Ball Chinian has already said that parks will do less lawn mowing in 2009 to save on fuel, labor and equipment maintenance costs.
Comments
The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the view of saratogian.com.
Teresa wrote on Feb 14, 2009 6:25 AM:
" I bring my children there a lot over the summer and go camping there each summer. What do they plan on doing for the individuals camping there that look forward to walking to the beach each day? This is a real bad idea. I think they ought to cut staff and pay rates not take away from the people. "
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anna wrote on Feb 14, 2009 7:19 AM:
" Closing the Moreau beach two days a week seems really mean..as where else are we to go? Does that mean seniors can use the park free on weekends. This is really the only summer pleasure I know...Please do not limit. "
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mallory wrote on Feb 14, 2009 7:32 AM:
" seems to be alot of the beach goers at Moreau do NOT seem to be wealthy. This beach is most important to local families. Cut back in area where people can afford alternative recreatiion.
We NEED this beach all summer..every day. "
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modest income person wrote on Feb 14, 2009 7:36 AM:
" consider closing cement pools but keep the natural beach open every day. "
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ANN GREGG wrote on Feb 14, 2009 7:40 AM:
" There is not many places where a family can go anymore that doesn't cost a lot of money. A lot of towns don't have public pools and some families just can't afford to have a pool in their yard so where else do they go but to the beach. Closing on a thursday / friday is crazy. When do families go camping. End of the week, right? So this means on long weekends. So if a family goes camping on a thursday in the summer they can't go swimming till saturday. What kind of a impact will this have on the campgrounds or the picinic grounds that the people come in to use. This could result in tragedies of maybe sneaking into the lake swimming without lifeguards or will it be posted on thursdays and fridays as a swim at own risk. At least this way a parent could be responsible for their children. "
Report Abuse
carole ann wrote on Feb 14, 2009 8:13 AM:
" how much pay do lifeguards earn? perhaps that could be posted and maybe some of our local busineses would be willing to chip in for the pay "
By PAUL POST, The Saratogian
MOREAU —Local moms are concerned about possible cutbacks at Moreau Lake State Park’s swimming beach this summer.
Parks officials are considering a proposal to keep the beach closed Thursdays and Fridays to save money in the midst of a state fiscal crisis.
The move would reduce the amount of funding needed for lifeguards.
“The agency is re-evaluating our schedule in light of these difficult economic times we’re in,” said assistant director for the Saratoga-Capital Region Robert Kuhn. “Everything is under consideration.
“No decisions have been made.”
But a fact sheet distributed by the state sounds more definite.
Amy Cantor, owner of Omelette King Catering in Saratoga Springs, learned about the possible beach cutbacks when responding to an advertisement seeking bids for park concessions.
She was sent a packet of information.
“Prospective bidders are advised that current operations for 2009 include a reduced schedule for the swimming beach at Moreau Lake,” the state said. “The beach is expected to be closed on Thursdays and Fridays throughout the summer.”
The state is facing a possible $1 billion deficit this year and Gov. David Paterson has called on all state agencies to make reductions wherever possible. Cantor said the possibility of reduced Moreau Lake scheduling is an unwelcome development.
“It’s terrible news just from a personal standpoint,” she said. “I take my son there all the time. There’s the pool at Spa State Park, but there’s no place as fun and so close as Moreau Lake. It’s the only place to go.
“The court of public opinion should weigh pretty heavily here.”
Cantor said she has several friends with young children who frequent the park regularly.
The Saratoga-Capital Region consists of 10 state parks and 10 historic sites. In December, parks officials reported that shorter seasons, reduced hours and staff cuts were among possible cost-saving measures.
In addition, state parks gets most of its revenue from golf, camping and vehicle use fees, which might all be going up.
Regional Director Alane Ball Chinian has already said that parks will do less lawn mowing in 2009 to save on fuel, labor and equipment maintenance costs.
Comments
The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the view of saratogian.com.
Teresa wrote on Feb 14, 2009 6:25 AM:
" I bring my children there a lot over the summer and go camping there each summer. What do they plan on doing for the individuals camping there that look forward to walking to the beach each day? This is a real bad idea. I think they ought to cut staff and pay rates not take away from the people. "
Report Abuse
anna wrote on Feb 14, 2009 7:19 AM:
" Closing the Moreau beach two days a week seems really mean..as where else are we to go? Does that mean seniors can use the park free on weekends. This is really the only summer pleasure I know...Please do not limit. "
Report Abuse
mallory wrote on Feb 14, 2009 7:32 AM:
" seems to be alot of the beach goers at Moreau do NOT seem to be wealthy. This beach is most important to local families. Cut back in area where people can afford alternative recreatiion.
We NEED this beach all summer..every day. "
Report Abuse
modest income person wrote on Feb 14, 2009 7:36 AM:
" consider closing cement pools but keep the natural beach open every day. "
Report Abuse
ANN GREGG wrote on Feb 14, 2009 7:40 AM:
" There is not many places where a family can go anymore that doesn't cost a lot of money. A lot of towns don't have public pools and some families just can't afford to have a pool in their yard so where else do they go but to the beach. Closing on a thursday / friday is crazy. When do families go camping. End of the week, right? So this means on long weekends. So if a family goes camping on a thursday in the summer they can't go swimming till saturday. What kind of a impact will this have on the campgrounds or the picinic grounds that the people come in to use. This could result in tragedies of maybe sneaking into the lake swimming without lifeguards or will it be posted on thursdays and fridays as a swim at own risk. At least this way a parent could be responsible for their children. "
Report Abuse
carole ann wrote on Feb 14, 2009 8:13 AM:
" how much pay do lifeguards earn? perhaps that could be posted and maybe some of our local busineses would be willing to chip in for the pay "
Friday, February 13, 2009
Saratoga Spa State Park officials show contempt to the tax-paying dog lovers who pay for the 2500 acres of the Park.
News
Butterflies may oust canines from select state park space
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A sign in the dog park indicates the presence of Karner Blue Butterflies. (RICK GARGIULO/The Saratogian)
Friday, February 13, 2009 11:33 AM EST
By ANDREW J. BERNSTEIN, The Saratogian
SARATOGA SPRINGS — A proactive approach to resource management in Spa State Park will help create a better habitat for Karner Blue Butterflies, but it might come at some cost to dog owners.
In an effort to better manage natural resources in the park, there will be changes to the landscaping in a parcel on the corner of South Broadway and Crescent Ave, said Alane Ball-Chinian, regional director with the NYS Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation .
“Commissioner Ash planned a new emphasis on management of resources that are under the stewardship of the Park’s Department,” she said. “She helped get us some staff, so we now have a natural resources person on staff.”
Following the recommendations of the park’s new staff member, the park will make changes along the parcel’s eastern edge, which is out of view from South Broadway.
New landscaping will involve removing some trees and existing topsoil to provide a better growing environment for Wild Blue Lupin, a butterfly-friendly plant. The topsoil will be used to create berms.
“We’re going to reorient the trail system, so that people can walk through there, but there will be a better delineation between where people can walk and the habitat,” she said. “It’ll almost be like a viewing area.”
The parcel in question is currently the site of a popular dog park, where canines are allowed to wander off-leash.
Chinian said the future of the dog park is being contemplated under the park’s master plan, which will be available for public review and comment some time later this spring.
“Changes in that area have nothing to do with development of the master plan. This is driven by our desire to take care of an endangered species,” she said.
While she declined to discuss any specifics in the master plan, she did say that an area for dogs to walk off-leash would be included.
This should allay the concerns of some dog park users, who worry that there are few places where dogs are allowed to be off-leash.
“We all feel that why can’t we come to the middle of the road here. This area, half of it could be strictly just for butterflies. The dogs that go there and their owners are very responsible, the dogs get along well and are happy to be off leashes,” said Sue Sporko, who visits the park regularly with her two dogs, a golden retriever and an American Eskimo.
“It’s a nice interaction to be able to walk through a part of the woods a little bit. It makes them happier pets and when you socialize them like that, they behave better and don’t bite,” Sporko said.
Saratoga Springs Commissioner of Finance Kenneth Ivins Jr., who also regularly visits the park with his dog and who held a meeting in the spring to discuss the proposed plans for the park, said he hadn’t yet been made privy to any firm plans for the park, other than that some portion would be retained for the butterflies.
“At least it’s a compromise, instead of kicking us out. At least we have an area for dogs,” he said.
Poll question: What do you think of the proposed plans to remake the landscape in Spa State Park to be more habitable to Blue Karner butterflies? To answer, go to www.saratogian.com/news and look for the poll in the left column.
Comments
The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the view of saratogian.com.
Suzanne wrote on Feb 13, 2009 8:50 AM:
" I have owned dogs my entire life and not one has eaten or even disturbed a butterfly! Come on - I think the city of Saratoga is ust going too far if they eliminate dogs from the park because of some insect (yes, a buttlefly is still an insect). What is next - elimination of cats if they find a spotted owl? Good luck with that! "
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Dog Lover wrote on Feb 13, 2009 9:31 AM:
" I really hope the new area for dogs includes a fence. Otherwise don't even bother. "
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Matt wrote on Feb 13, 2009 10:21 AM:
" I support the proactivity of the State Park. I am proud to live in an area that tries hard to balance development, open space and, in this case, endangered species protection.
And in response to Suzanne, the city has nothing to do with this decision. This is state park land, paid for by you an I and given the mandate to protect land, and provide recreation opportunities - not so much to build free dog parks. "
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Xtraspatial wrote on Feb 13, 2009 10:58 AM:
" I think the parcel is on the SE corner of Crescent St and South Broadway, not Circular.
Also, Regional Park director's name is Alane Ball Chinian. "
Report Abuse
Web editor wrote on Feb 13, 2009 11:34 AM:
" Right you are on both counts, Xtraspatial. They have been corrected above. Thanks for pointing out the errors. "
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Bassman wrote on Feb 13, 2009 12:41 PM:
" Sue-zanne: GI Rights, Lake Rights, Dog Rights? It's NYS Land. Go Sue the State. "
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Don wrote on Feb 13, 2009 1:38 PM:
" Has there ever been a carner blue butterfly sighting in the last century and a half? All this creature has done is kill many projects due to its alleged existence. "
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Muddy Boots wrote on Feb 13, 2009 2:13 PM:
" Don,
There is an axiom in wildlife biology: "An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Your position has been used to downplay the existence of Canada Lynx in Colorado.
Karner Blues have been sighted in the past, their habitat and lifecycle is well-documented, and from this information, there are logical places to protect if we deem such protection a worthwhile proposition (which, apparently, you do not). Karner Blues had a viable population in the Pine Bush that extended for thousands of acres in the mid-Hudson prior to accelerated development without knowledge of consequences.
Perhaps you are right: in our rush to develop the area for our own thneeds, we've probably destroyed all potentially suitable habitat for the Karner Blue butterfly. Who or what is to be lost next? the Bald Eagle (threatend in NYS), the Cougar (endangered in NYS), fresh water, ecosystem services, clean air?
Suzanne, while you are correct that the K B Butterfly is an insect, it plays an important part in the interconnected "web of life" where no species exists in isolation from its community. Too often reductionists ignore the inter-species interactions to the peril of so-called nuisance species. Exterminate the pest and endanger its predator. "
Report Abuse
Dale Ordes wrote on Feb 13, 2009 5:15 PM:
" According to Muddy Boots above, lack of evidence is not evidence of lack of existence. I suppose that means that dragons are might still be lurking in Saratoga Park, even though they haven't been seen in quite a while.
Don above questions how many Karner Blues have been seen. Based on my daily observation, the answer is: not many. Someone should make a cost-benefit analysis of tieing up hundreds of acres of public land in the unlikely hope of possibly seeing one or two Karner Blues in a season. In 15 years of dog walking there, I have seen exactly two of the little blue creatures, but I have seen hundreds of happy dogs and their owners, most of whom (the owners) pay taxes, both local and State.
To answer Matt above, this is not a "free" dog park. Almost every dog walker has already paid for it through taxes.
Ever notice how "preservation" of our public lands initially calls for the destruction of those lands? The "improvers" will cut down more trees and scrape off the top soil in order to plant the lupine which the finicky Karner Blue uses as its almost sole source of nutrition. There currently are plowed and scraped fields located in the park left over from previous planting efforts. Nothing grows there.
One critical endangered specie in the Saratoga Springs area is the Tree. With any more "improvement" that cuts down trees, we will have to go to a Tree Museum just to see'um, as Joanie Mitchell once said.
We thankfully have new political administrations at all levels of government. One of the promises of of the new politicians is transparency in governmental operations. Well, actions about the dog park are shrouded in bureaucratic mystery. Open meetings were a joke, with most of the public's input being dismissed out of hand.
This new wave of government is supposed to reflect the will of those who are affected by governmental decisions. I challenge the parks administration to take a poll or have an election concerning use of the park lands in Saratoga Springs and just see what the public feels on this subject. Want to bet that the public prefers dogs to blue bugs?
The eco-fascists who are trying to expel our dogs from public land are quick to tell the rest of us what we should want and how we are supposed to behave. No one ever elected them for that task.
There is some Federal guilt money that underwrites the Karner Blue. The State parks administration wants this money -- public be damned. That little bit of Federal subsidy is not worth excluding the public from its own parks.
We need a true open and honest forum on how these park lands are to be used.
Dale "
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A.Walker wrote on Feb 13, 2009 5:35 PM:
" I agree with the above writer - there is more to this than meets the eye... and it is probably money. The dogs and the butterflies have co- existed for many years and will probably continue to do so if left on their own.
The issue is not have to chose between endangered species or dogs - it is far more political than any of us has been told.
I thought that the State was having a financial crisis - don't they have really important things to do with the money that they do have?
A taxpayer "
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Huh wrote on Feb 13, 2009 5:38 PM:
" The fact that they want to cut down trees and start modifying the environment to better suit the butterflies pretty much says it all. What an absolute joke. If the butterflies can't live there as it is then that should be their tough luck. To go and start cutting down trees and splitting the atom for them is about as dumb a plan as I have heard yet. If the place is so unsuitable for them then that might explain why their notable absence. 4 years of going there and zero sightings.
I wonder what Darwin would say about this butterfly. "
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Huh wrote on Feb 13, 2009 5:41 PM:
" And what is it about dogs that the butterflies find so offensive? How come they can co-exist with deer, rabbits, chipmunks, squirrels, BIRDS and every other animal in the woods, but the mere sight of a dog sends them to their doom?
Maybe they should be relocated? You could employ a bunch of stoner college students to run around all summer with nets and round them up. "
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Jackson wrote on Feb 13, 2009 5:48 PM:
" This should be provided by the City of Saratoga Springs. Plenty of municipalities have this. It is not the state that should provide it. This is land that is nice to walk on, has an endangered species using it and is natural area that is a buffer for the entry into town. If this is a dog park it will probably be fenced in and will look worse than it does now with the lawn torn up. Tell the city that they should build us a dog park not the state. "
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Huh wrote on Feb 13, 2009 5:55 PM:
" "Adult Karner blues usually live about 5-7 days"
"Karner blues are small, with a wingspan of about one inch."
"Most Karner blues stay within about 200 meters of their home lupine patch."
So they live a week, have a wingspan of an inch, which explains why people without an electron microscope don't see them and are finicky eaters.
You know what would be a better use of tax payer dollars? NOT WASTING MONEY ON THESE THINGS!
"Most Karner blues stay within about 200 meters of their home lupine patch."
Which means the home they have is where they live. Now they want to cut down a section of the woods and try and create another suitable growing area for the butterflies. What if they don't move there? Nature has a way of being able to identify real from man made.
You know what folks? Given the economic situation we are in I think the butterfly ranks somewhere around dead last for any tax payer dollars, whether it be from state, federal or local sources.
This is so ridiculous. "
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z wrote on Feb 13, 2009 6:13 PM:
" Please save our butterflys!!!!!!! "
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Butterflies may oust canines from select state park space
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A sign in the dog park indicates the presence of Karner Blue Butterflies. (RICK GARGIULO/The Saratogian)
Friday, February 13, 2009 11:33 AM EST
By ANDREW J. BERNSTEIN, The Saratogian
SARATOGA SPRINGS — A proactive approach to resource management in Spa State Park will help create a better habitat for Karner Blue Butterflies, but it might come at some cost to dog owners.
In an effort to better manage natural resources in the park, there will be changes to the landscaping in a parcel on the corner of South Broadway and Crescent Ave, said Alane Ball-Chinian, regional director with the NYS Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation .
“Commissioner Ash planned a new emphasis on management of resources that are under the stewardship of the Park’s Department,” she said. “She helped get us some staff, so we now have a natural resources person on staff.”
Following the recommendations of the park’s new staff member, the park will make changes along the parcel’s eastern edge, which is out of view from South Broadway.
New landscaping will involve removing some trees and existing topsoil to provide a better growing environment for Wild Blue Lupin, a butterfly-friendly plant. The topsoil will be used to create berms.
“We’re going to reorient the trail system, so that people can walk through there, but there will be a better delineation between where people can walk and the habitat,” she said. “It’ll almost be like a viewing area.”
The parcel in question is currently the site of a popular dog park, where canines are allowed to wander off-leash.
Chinian said the future of the dog park is being contemplated under the park’s master plan, which will be available for public review and comment some time later this spring.
“Changes in that area have nothing to do with development of the master plan. This is driven by our desire to take care of an endangered species,” she said.
While she declined to discuss any specifics in the master plan, she did say that an area for dogs to walk off-leash would be included.
This should allay the concerns of some dog park users, who worry that there are few places where dogs are allowed to be off-leash.
“We all feel that why can’t we come to the middle of the road here. This area, half of it could be strictly just for butterflies. The dogs that go there and their owners are very responsible, the dogs get along well and are happy to be off leashes,” said Sue Sporko, who visits the park regularly with her two dogs, a golden retriever and an American Eskimo.
“It’s a nice interaction to be able to walk through a part of the woods a little bit. It makes them happier pets and when you socialize them like that, they behave better and don’t bite,” Sporko said.
Saratoga Springs Commissioner of Finance Kenneth Ivins Jr., who also regularly visits the park with his dog and who held a meeting in the spring to discuss the proposed plans for the park, said he hadn’t yet been made privy to any firm plans for the park, other than that some portion would be retained for the butterflies.
“At least it’s a compromise, instead of kicking us out. At least we have an area for dogs,” he said.
Poll question: What do you think of the proposed plans to remake the landscape in Spa State Park to be more habitable to Blue Karner butterflies? To answer, go to www.saratogian.com/news and look for the poll in the left column.
Comments
The following are comments from the readers. In no way do they represent the view of saratogian.com.
Suzanne wrote on Feb 13, 2009 8:50 AM:
" I have owned dogs my entire life and not one has eaten or even disturbed a butterfly! Come on - I think the city of Saratoga is ust going too far if they eliminate dogs from the park because of some insect (yes, a buttlefly is still an insect). What is next - elimination of cats if they find a spotted owl? Good luck with that! "
Report Abuse
Dog Lover wrote on Feb 13, 2009 9:31 AM:
" I really hope the new area for dogs includes a fence. Otherwise don't even bother. "
Report Abuse
Matt wrote on Feb 13, 2009 10:21 AM:
" I support the proactivity of the State Park. I am proud to live in an area that tries hard to balance development, open space and, in this case, endangered species protection.
And in response to Suzanne, the city has nothing to do with this decision. This is state park land, paid for by you an I and given the mandate to protect land, and provide recreation opportunities - not so much to build free dog parks. "
Report Abuse
Xtraspatial wrote on Feb 13, 2009 10:58 AM:
" I think the parcel is on the SE corner of Crescent St and South Broadway, not Circular.
Also, Regional Park director's name is Alane Ball Chinian. "
Report Abuse
Web editor wrote on Feb 13, 2009 11:34 AM:
" Right you are on both counts, Xtraspatial. They have been corrected above. Thanks for pointing out the errors. "
Report Abuse
Bassman wrote on Feb 13, 2009 12:41 PM:
" Sue-zanne: GI Rights, Lake Rights, Dog Rights? It's NYS Land. Go Sue the State. "
Report Abuse
Don wrote on Feb 13, 2009 1:38 PM:
" Has there ever been a carner blue butterfly sighting in the last century and a half? All this creature has done is kill many projects due to its alleged existence. "
Report Abuse
Muddy Boots wrote on Feb 13, 2009 2:13 PM:
" Don,
There is an axiom in wildlife biology: "An absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Your position has been used to downplay the existence of Canada Lynx in Colorado.
Karner Blues have been sighted in the past, their habitat and lifecycle is well-documented, and from this information, there are logical places to protect if we deem such protection a worthwhile proposition (which, apparently, you do not). Karner Blues had a viable population in the Pine Bush that extended for thousands of acres in the mid-Hudson prior to accelerated development without knowledge of consequences.
Perhaps you are right: in our rush to develop the area for our own thneeds, we've probably destroyed all potentially suitable habitat for the Karner Blue butterfly. Who or what is to be lost next? the Bald Eagle (threatend in NYS), the Cougar (endangered in NYS), fresh water, ecosystem services, clean air?
Suzanne, while you are correct that the K B Butterfly is an insect, it plays an important part in the interconnected "web of life" where no species exists in isolation from its community. Too often reductionists ignore the inter-species interactions to the peril of so-called nuisance species. Exterminate the pest and endanger its predator. "
Report Abuse
Dale Ordes wrote on Feb 13, 2009 5:15 PM:
" According to Muddy Boots above, lack of evidence is not evidence of lack of existence. I suppose that means that dragons are might still be lurking in Saratoga Park, even though they haven't been seen in quite a while.
Don above questions how many Karner Blues have been seen. Based on my daily observation, the answer is: not many. Someone should make a cost-benefit analysis of tieing up hundreds of acres of public land in the unlikely hope of possibly seeing one or two Karner Blues in a season. In 15 years of dog walking there, I have seen exactly two of the little blue creatures, but I have seen hundreds of happy dogs and their owners, most of whom (the owners) pay taxes, both local and State.
To answer Matt above, this is not a "free" dog park. Almost every dog walker has already paid for it through taxes.
Ever notice how "preservation" of our public lands initially calls for the destruction of those lands? The "improvers" will cut down more trees and scrape off the top soil in order to plant the lupine which the finicky Karner Blue uses as its almost sole source of nutrition. There currently are plowed and scraped fields located in the park left over from previous planting efforts. Nothing grows there.
One critical endangered specie in the Saratoga Springs area is the Tree. With any more "improvement" that cuts down trees, we will have to go to a Tree Museum just to see'um, as Joanie Mitchell once said.
We thankfully have new political administrations at all levels of government. One of the promises of of the new politicians is transparency in governmental operations. Well, actions about the dog park are shrouded in bureaucratic mystery. Open meetings were a joke, with most of the public's input being dismissed out of hand.
This new wave of government is supposed to reflect the will of those who are affected by governmental decisions. I challenge the parks administration to take a poll or have an election concerning use of the park lands in Saratoga Springs and just see what the public feels on this subject. Want to bet that the public prefers dogs to blue bugs?
The eco-fascists who are trying to expel our dogs from public land are quick to tell the rest of us what we should want and how we are supposed to behave. No one ever elected them for that task.
There is some Federal guilt money that underwrites the Karner Blue. The State parks administration wants this money -- public be damned. That little bit of Federal subsidy is not worth excluding the public from its own parks.
We need a true open and honest forum on how these park lands are to be used.
Dale "
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A.Walker wrote on Feb 13, 2009 5:35 PM:
" I agree with the above writer - there is more to this than meets the eye... and it is probably money. The dogs and the butterflies have co- existed for many years and will probably continue to do so if left on their own.
The issue is not have to chose between endangered species or dogs - it is far more political than any of us has been told.
I thought that the State was having a financial crisis - don't they have really important things to do with the money that they do have?
A taxpayer "
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Huh wrote on Feb 13, 2009 5:38 PM:
" The fact that they want to cut down trees and start modifying the environment to better suit the butterflies pretty much says it all. What an absolute joke. If the butterflies can't live there as it is then that should be their tough luck. To go and start cutting down trees and splitting the atom for them is about as dumb a plan as I have heard yet. If the place is so unsuitable for them then that might explain why their notable absence. 4 years of going there and zero sightings.
I wonder what Darwin would say about this butterfly. "
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Huh wrote on Feb 13, 2009 5:41 PM:
" And what is it about dogs that the butterflies find so offensive? How come they can co-exist with deer, rabbits, chipmunks, squirrels, BIRDS and every other animal in the woods, but the mere sight of a dog sends them to their doom?
Maybe they should be relocated? You could employ a bunch of stoner college students to run around all summer with nets and round them up. "
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Jackson wrote on Feb 13, 2009 5:48 PM:
" This should be provided by the City of Saratoga Springs. Plenty of municipalities have this. It is not the state that should provide it. This is land that is nice to walk on, has an endangered species using it and is natural area that is a buffer for the entry into town. If this is a dog park it will probably be fenced in and will look worse than it does now with the lawn torn up. Tell the city that they should build us a dog park not the state. "
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Huh wrote on Feb 13, 2009 5:55 PM:
" "Adult Karner blues usually live about 5-7 days"
"Karner blues are small, with a wingspan of about one inch."
"Most Karner blues stay within about 200 meters of their home lupine patch."
So they live a week, have a wingspan of an inch, which explains why people without an electron microscope don't see them and are finicky eaters.
You know what would be a better use of tax payer dollars? NOT WASTING MONEY ON THESE THINGS!
"Most Karner blues stay within about 200 meters of their home lupine patch."
Which means the home they have is where they live. Now they want to cut down a section of the woods and try and create another suitable growing area for the butterflies. What if they don't move there? Nature has a way of being able to identify real from man made.
You know what folks? Given the economic situation we are in I think the butterfly ranks somewhere around dead last for any tax payer dollars, whether it be from state, federal or local sources.
This is so ridiculous. "
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z wrote on Feb 13, 2009 6:13 PM:
" Please save our butterflys!!!!!!! "
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Tuesday, February 10, 2009
Saratoga-Capital District region Park lowers its entry fee
We understand that Mine Kill NYS Park has lowered its entry fee to $3 from $6 to enter the park and assume Saratoga Spa State Park will also lower its fee since it is in the same region--Saratoga-Capital District. The swimming Pool at Mine Kill charges $3 for admission and we hope the Victoria and Peerless Pool will be charging the same.
Saturday, February 07, 2009
Stop the nonsense and get a grip, folks!
Lately some of the comments on this blog have gotten so silly it is ridiculous. Save the Victoria Pool Society is a grass-roots group of very ordinary hard-working and lately unemployed people in some cases. In these tough economic times our only agenda as always is to preserve and maintain the most beautiful swimming pool and NYS park in America, Victoria Pool and Saratoga Spa State Park. This is a public park paid for with our hard-earned tax-dollars. With the help of the public and the Press, Save the Victoria Pool Society was able to get State and Federal Officials to agree to rehabilitate the Victoria Pool from certain demise in 2003. Thanks to great support from the entire upstate region and beyond the Victoria Pool obtained $1.5 million of our(public) money to preserve it in 2003. All we want is to have the Victoria Pool opened for a reasonable amount of the summer, June, July and August at a price people can afford, $6, since we all pay already for Saratoga Spa State Park. Millions of dollars of our public money have also been poured into the Peerless Pool to build a water slide and repair it recently and it would be disastrous to close the Peerless two days a wk.
We have no political or financial aspirations and our only concern is to enhance the quality of life in upstate NY where no other State pool exists within 100+miles.
The distracting comments on this blog only make those that write them appear idiotic.
We have no political or financial aspirations and our only concern is to enhance the quality of life in upstate NY where no other State pool exists within 100+miles.
The distracting comments on this blog only make those that write them appear idiotic.
Wednesday, February 04, 2009
Yet another historic treasure long ignored by Saratoga Spa State Park
Rotting in the park
By DREW KERR
dkerr@poststar.com
Updated: Wednesday, February 4, 2009 1:22 AM EST
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SARATOGA SPRINGS - The snow-white paint is falling, flake by flake, from the facade, exposing the gray hue of worn wood beneath.
Windows devoid of glass panes are either covered in thin sheets of plywood or have become a point of entry for vines and animals.
Small overhangs above the doors sag, standing only with the assistance of a pair of two-by-fours used as makeshift props.
Inside, the smell of dust and mold is pervasive. Wallpaper is peeling from the drywall, and nothing more than a mustard yellow oven and a small potted plant on a haphazard shelf can be found.
This is the collective aesthetic of the single-story home situated between the Saratoga Tree Nursery's fields and the third hole of the Saratoga Spa State Park's golf course.
Unless state officials alter course, the picture is likely to get worse.
Vacant for more than three decades, the state has tried and failed over the years to solicit private investment in the structure. They've also considered demolition and, now, say they've got no plans for the building whatsoever.
"Even demolition is expensive, so it still just sits there waiting for an answer," said Robert Kuhn, the assistant regional director for the New York State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation.
The building does have its share of history, though.
According to documents provided by the Library of Congress, the one-story structure was built sometime around 1835 by Charles Patrick, who used it as the centerpiece of his 150-acre farmstead.
At that time, the surrounding Saratoga Spa State Park had not been developed.
Diana Armstrong's grandparents, Daniel and Norah Ronan, and her mother, Florence, lived in the building during the early 1900s and farmed the surrounding area. The house then was split into a duplex and was shared by two school teachers, Armstrong said.
She said she has never been in the house but has visited to take pictures in recent years.
"Whenever I drive down South Broadway, I always look down between the trees to see if it's still there," she said.
In 1928, as efforts to expand the park were underway, the state assumed ownership of the building.
It was used to house managers for the tree nursery until 1976, when the final occupant, Hank LaTour, died and his family moved out.
Robert Macica, who lived in a nearby house that the state eventually took through eminent domain, said he worked for LaTour but never had the chance to enter the house.
"It was well maintained, but it looked old even then," he said.
Efforts to find an alternative use for the building have thusfar been unsuccessful.
In 1997, state officials attempted to attract developers who would build a golf course on land adjacent to the park and included a 20-year lease for the house in the deal.
But its awkward placement -- the building can't be reached by road -- spoiled any chance of its potential revitalization.
Defeated, state officials suggested several years ago that it be torn down, a proposal that never came to fruition. The suggestion was made again last year, but it was put off again because of the state budget crunch, officials said.
Now, Alane Ball Chinian, the parks department's regional director, said she'd like to see something done with the building.
"It needs to be preserved and re-purposed," she said. "It's a historic building without a use."
But Dan Keefe, a spokesman for the New York State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation, said there are no plans to do anything with the house.
Officials are creating a master plan for the entire state park now, and ideas for the building could be included in that document, Keefe said.
The plan may also propose new uses for other, smaller abandoned structures in the park, as well as the now-vacant Roosevelt bathhouse.
By DREW KERR
dkerr@poststar.com
Updated: Wednesday, February 4, 2009 1:22 AM EST
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SARATOGA SPRINGS - The snow-white paint is falling, flake by flake, from the facade, exposing the gray hue of worn wood beneath.
Windows devoid of glass panes are either covered in thin sheets of plywood or have become a point of entry for vines and animals.
Small overhangs above the doors sag, standing only with the assistance of a pair of two-by-fours used as makeshift props.
Inside, the smell of dust and mold is pervasive. Wallpaper is peeling from the drywall, and nothing more than a mustard yellow oven and a small potted plant on a haphazard shelf can be found.
This is the collective aesthetic of the single-story home situated between the Saratoga Tree Nursery's fields and the third hole of the Saratoga Spa State Park's golf course.
Unless state officials alter course, the picture is likely to get worse.
Vacant for more than three decades, the state has tried and failed over the years to solicit private investment in the structure. They've also considered demolition and, now, say they've got no plans for the building whatsoever.
"Even demolition is expensive, so it still just sits there waiting for an answer," said Robert Kuhn, the assistant regional director for the New York State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation.
The building does have its share of history, though.
According to documents provided by the Library of Congress, the one-story structure was built sometime around 1835 by Charles Patrick, who used it as the centerpiece of his 150-acre farmstead.
At that time, the surrounding Saratoga Spa State Park had not been developed.
Diana Armstrong's grandparents, Daniel and Norah Ronan, and her mother, Florence, lived in the building during the early 1900s and farmed the surrounding area. The house then was split into a duplex and was shared by two school teachers, Armstrong said.
She said she has never been in the house but has visited to take pictures in recent years.
"Whenever I drive down South Broadway, I always look down between the trees to see if it's still there," she said.
In 1928, as efforts to expand the park were underway, the state assumed ownership of the building.
It was used to house managers for the tree nursery until 1976, when the final occupant, Hank LaTour, died and his family moved out.
Robert Macica, who lived in a nearby house that the state eventually took through eminent domain, said he worked for LaTour but never had the chance to enter the house.
"It was well maintained, but it looked old even then," he said.
Efforts to find an alternative use for the building have thusfar been unsuccessful.
In 1997, state officials attempted to attract developers who would build a golf course on land adjacent to the park and included a 20-year lease for the house in the deal.
But its awkward placement -- the building can't be reached by road -- spoiled any chance of its potential revitalization.
Defeated, state officials suggested several years ago that it be torn down, a proposal that never came to fruition. The suggestion was made again last year, but it was put off again because of the state budget crunch, officials said.
Now, Alane Ball Chinian, the parks department's regional director, said she'd like to see something done with the building.
"It needs to be preserved and re-purposed," she said. "It's a historic building without a use."
But Dan Keefe, a spokesman for the New York State Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation, said there are no plans to do anything with the house.
Officials are creating a master plan for the entire state park now, and ideas for the building could be included in that document, Keefe said.
The plan may also propose new uses for other, smaller abandoned structures in the park, as well as the now-vacant Roosevelt bathhouse.
Tuesday, February 03, 2009
Friday, January 30, 2009
Free Lifeguard training at Saratoga YMCA, 2/15-2/20
lifeguards needed:
A 40 hour FREE Red Cross couse will be held at the Saratoga YMCA, 290 West Ave., Feb. 16-Feb. 20 from 8:30am-5 pm.
participants must be in attendance the FULL Five Days.
A pre-test will be conducted Feb.15 to qualify candidates to take the course.
Candidates must have 20/40 uncorrected vision in each eye. The course is open to individuals age 16 and older.
At the end of the course the NYS lifeguard exam will be offered. There are 60 positions available.
Starting salary is $10.35 an hour for first-year lifeguards, and up to $15.93 an hour for supervising lifeguards.
For an information packet and to register for the course:
Call: Patricia Forward at 584-2000, ext. 120
email: patricia.forward@OPRHP.state.ny.us.
A 40 hour FREE Red Cross couse will be held at the Saratoga YMCA, 290 West Ave., Feb. 16-Feb. 20 from 8:30am-5 pm.
participants must be in attendance the FULL Five Days.
A pre-test will be conducted Feb.15 to qualify candidates to take the course.
Candidates must have 20/40 uncorrected vision in each eye. The course is open to individuals age 16 and older.
At the end of the course the NYS lifeguard exam will be offered. There are 60 positions available.
Starting salary is $10.35 an hour for first-year lifeguards, and up to $15.93 an hour for supervising lifeguards.
For an information packet and to register for the course:
Call: Patricia Forward at 584-2000, ext. 120
email: patricia.forward@OPRHP.state.ny.us.
Wednesday, January 28, 2009
Does anyone know how the State Seal Water Pavilion in the State Park got named the Joe Bruno Pavilion?
Signs urge polite use of spring
Wednesday, January 28, 2009
By Lee Coleman (Contact)
Gazette Reporter
Photographer: Bruce Squiers
Signs placed along corners of the State Seal water pavilion in Saratoga Spa State Park remind users to share the available spigots.
Text Size: A | A | A
SARATOGA SPRINGS — The State Seal water flowing day and night at an outdoor pavilion in the Saratoga Spa State Park has become so popular that park officials have been forced to post a new, informal guideline at the spring.
“Share Spigots, Don’t Be a Water Hog,” say the signs posted inside the Joseph L. Bruno Pavilion on the Avenue of the Pines.
“This morning I stood here one hour,” said John Salmon of Glens Falls, who had come Tuesday to get some of the water.
He said a man was filling up large, 20-gallon containers with the free spring water and wouldn’t share one of the spigots with Salmon.
Salmon said the man told him: “I got here first.”
So Salmon left and came back Tuesday afternoon to fill his two small jugs.
Mike Greenslade, manager of the state park, said that in recent months his office has received complaints from spring-water lovers who say some people don’t share the six spigots at the Bruno pavilion.
“We are asking people not to be a spigot hog,” Greenslade said. He said the little signs with a pig on them are meant to be “humorous.”
“We want to keep it lighthearted,” Greenslade said. He said that so far, there have been no physical altercations spilling over at the spring.
Roberta Abramo of Stillwater said Tuesday that she comes to the State Seal spring every two months and fills up dozens of gallon water bottles for herself and her daughter.
“Sometimes there are a lot of people here,” Abramo said. She said when many people want to use the spigots, as was the case Tuesday afternoon, she makes sure to use only one of the spigots.
Mike Hitchcock of Galway said he comes to fill up his two big blue water containers once a week. “The water has a nice taste to it,” he said.
Hitchcock said he has never had a problem with people hogging the spigots. “If it’s busy, you come back later. This is Saratoga; it’s very peaceful,” he said.
People filling up containers at the spring Tuesday said they like to use the State Seal water for drinking as well as for brewing tea and coffee.
“It’s clear, good water,” said Salmon. He said he has been coming to Saratoga Springs for 50 years to take home jugs of the water.
Unlike many mineral springs in the Saratoga Spa State Park and in Saratoga Springs, the State Seal water is not carbonated and does not have a sulfur taste to it. There is one spigot of real mineral water running in the Bruno pavilion, but people seldom use it.
Greenslade said the Bruno pavilion is probably the most popular place in the park on a daily basis.
He said his staff has done occasional car counts and they estimated that between 300 and 400 cars per day stop at the spring year-round.
He said there is another State Seal spring running in the park’s Geyser picnic area, but it's hard to access during the winter months.
Alli Schweizer, the park’s naturalist, said that the reason the water is so clean and uncarbonated is because it runs through sand and not limestone, through which many of the other mineral springs flow.
“The limestone gives the other springs carbonation,” Schweizer said.
State Seal is “recommended by physicians where mineral-free water is indicated,” says a statement from the park on its mineral waters. The statements says the water is “fresh, non-carbonated” and ideal for general use.
Greenslade said the park has had State Seal water tested recently and the tests indicated that it is “very good water” with no significant levels of any harmful substance or bacteria in it.
Despite the water hog signs, there is no shortage of State Seal water, Greenslade said.
Wednesday, January 28, 2009
By Lee Coleman (Contact)
Gazette Reporter
Photographer: Bruce Squiers
Signs placed along corners of the State Seal water pavilion in Saratoga Spa State Park remind users to share the available spigots.
Text Size: A | A | A
SARATOGA SPRINGS — The State Seal water flowing day and night at an outdoor pavilion in the Saratoga Spa State Park has become so popular that park officials have been forced to post a new, informal guideline at the spring.
“Share Spigots, Don’t Be a Water Hog,” say the signs posted inside the Joseph L. Bruno Pavilion on the Avenue of the Pines.
“This morning I stood here one hour,” said John Salmon of Glens Falls, who had come Tuesday to get some of the water.
He said a man was filling up large, 20-gallon containers with the free spring water and wouldn’t share one of the spigots with Salmon.
Salmon said the man told him: “I got here first.”
So Salmon left and came back Tuesday afternoon to fill his two small jugs.
Mike Greenslade, manager of the state park, said that in recent months his office has received complaints from spring-water lovers who say some people don’t share the six spigots at the Bruno pavilion.
“We are asking people not to be a spigot hog,” Greenslade said. He said the little signs with a pig on them are meant to be “humorous.”
“We want to keep it lighthearted,” Greenslade said. He said that so far, there have been no physical altercations spilling over at the spring.
Roberta Abramo of Stillwater said Tuesday that she comes to the State Seal spring every two months and fills up dozens of gallon water bottles for herself and her daughter.
“Sometimes there are a lot of people here,” Abramo said. She said when many people want to use the spigots, as was the case Tuesday afternoon, she makes sure to use only one of the spigots.
Mike Hitchcock of Galway said he comes to fill up his two big blue water containers once a week. “The water has a nice taste to it,” he said.
Hitchcock said he has never had a problem with people hogging the spigots. “If it’s busy, you come back later. This is Saratoga; it’s very peaceful,” he said.
People filling up containers at the spring Tuesday said they like to use the State Seal water for drinking as well as for brewing tea and coffee.
“It’s clear, good water,” said Salmon. He said he has been coming to Saratoga Springs for 50 years to take home jugs of the water.
Unlike many mineral springs in the Saratoga Spa State Park and in Saratoga Springs, the State Seal water is not carbonated and does not have a sulfur taste to it. There is one spigot of real mineral water running in the Bruno pavilion, but people seldom use it.
Greenslade said the Bruno pavilion is probably the most popular place in the park on a daily basis.
He said his staff has done occasional car counts and they estimated that between 300 and 400 cars per day stop at the spring year-round.
He said there is another State Seal spring running in the park’s Geyser picnic area, but it's hard to access during the winter months.
Alli Schweizer, the park’s naturalist, said that the reason the water is so clean and uncarbonated is because it runs through sand and not limestone, through which many of the other mineral springs flow.
“The limestone gives the other springs carbonation,” Schweizer said.
State Seal is “recommended by physicians where mineral-free water is indicated,” says a statement from the park on its mineral waters. The statements says the water is “fresh, non-carbonated” and ideal for general use.
Greenslade said the park has had State Seal water tested recently and the tests indicated that it is “very good water” with no significant levels of any harmful substance or bacteria in it.
Despite the water hog signs, there is no shortage of State Seal water, Greenslade said.
Friday, January 16, 2009
Making waves, times union, 1/16/09
State's plan for pools, beaches makes waves
Fees and hours could change because of New York's budget problems
By DENNIS YUSKO, Staff writer
Click byline for more stories by writer.
First published: Friday, January 16, 2009
SARATOGA SPRINGS — The state is considering changing fees and schedules for all pools and beaches at Capital Region state parks due to budget shortfalls, a regional director said Thursday.
Under a tentative plan, the state would increase fees at the Victoria Pool at Saratoga Spa State Park by $2 per day for adults and close the park's Peerless Pool two days a week this summer, said Alane Ball Chinian, regional director for the Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation. She made the comments after Saratoga Springs resident Louise Goldstein obtained a copy of the Spa park's 2009 fee schedule.
Swimming operations also could be revised at Moreau, Grafton, Thacher and Thompson Lake state parks under budget cuts, Chinian said.
"The budget isn't near complete," Chinian said. "We're not sure what we're working with yet, so when we know, we'll make those decisions."
Goldstein, a city resident, has fought for improvements and more seasonal swimming days at the outdoor Victoria Pool.
The 2009 fee schedule for pools at the park shows admission for Victoria Pool would rise 25 percent for adults and children. Entry fees would be $8 for adults and $4 for children; the Peerless Pool would close Mondays and Tuesdays. The pools used to open on Memorial Day, but recently have opened later. Both pools will be open June 27 to Sept. 7 this year, according to the state. That, and potential changes to the pools, are unacceptable, Goldstein said.
"We're upset and we intend on protesting," said Goldstein. "Contrary to public opinion, everybody in Saratoga is not rich enough to have their own swimming pool."
Privacy Rights | Terms of Service
All Times Union materials copyright 1996-2009, Capital Newspapers Division of The Hearst Corporation, Albany, NY
Fees and hours could change because of New York's budget problems
By DENNIS YUSKO, Staff writer
Click byline for more stories by writer.
First published: Friday, January 16, 2009
SARATOGA SPRINGS — The state is considering changing fees and schedules for all pools and beaches at Capital Region state parks due to budget shortfalls, a regional director said Thursday.
Under a tentative plan, the state would increase fees at the Victoria Pool at Saratoga Spa State Park by $2 per day for adults and close the park's Peerless Pool two days a week this summer, said Alane Ball Chinian, regional director for the Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation. She made the comments after Saratoga Springs resident Louise Goldstein obtained a copy of the Spa park's 2009 fee schedule.
Swimming operations also could be revised at Moreau, Grafton, Thacher and Thompson Lake state parks under budget cuts, Chinian said.
"The budget isn't near complete," Chinian said. "We're not sure what we're working with yet, so when we know, we'll make those decisions."
Goldstein, a city resident, has fought for improvements and more seasonal swimming days at the outdoor Victoria Pool.
The 2009 fee schedule for pools at the park shows admission for Victoria Pool would rise 25 percent for adults and children. Entry fees would be $8 for adults and $4 for children; the Peerless Pool would close Mondays and Tuesdays. The pools used to open on Memorial Day, but recently have opened later. Both pools will be open June 27 to Sept. 7 this year, according to the state. That, and potential changes to the pools, are unacceptable, Goldstein said.
"We're upset and we intend on protesting," said Goldstein. "Contrary to public opinion, everybody in Saratoga is not rich enough to have their own swimming pool."
Privacy Rights | Terms of Service
All Times Union materials copyright 1996-2009, Capital Newspapers Division of The Hearst Corporation, Albany, NY
Wednesday, January 14, 2009
Bulletin!
An anonymous rumor sent on the blog was confirmed today that the Victoria Pool fee is being raised from $6-$8 a day with no season tickets this year. The Peerless Pool will be closed Mondays and Tuesdays and the Pools are not scheduled to open until June 27,2009.
Victoria Pool was already the most expensive pool in the NYS Park system at $6.
We have already protested to NYS Parks in albany who claim to know nothing about such plans. Stay tuned.
Save the Victoria Pool Society
Victoria Pool was already the most expensive pool in the NYS Park system at $6.
We have already protested to NYS Parks in albany who claim to know nothing about such plans. Stay tuned.
Save the Victoria Pool Society
Tuesday, January 13, 2009
Saturday, January 10, 2009
who says Saratoga is the "real world" & can't open the Victoria Pool on Memorial Day?
Foreign investors smile on Saratoga
Arab investments, high-technology hopes putting international focus on county that still has rural feel
By DENNIS YUSKO, Staff writer
Click byline for more stories by writer.
First published: Saturday, January 10, 2009
SARATOGA SPRINGS — Arab executives looking to invest billions in high-technology and horses have discovered a welcoming haven in Saratoga County.
The still-rural area offers an environment that values foreign investment and its horse-racing history, important factors in making it attractive to investors in the oil-rich United Arab Emirates, said Robert Wages, executive director of private equity at the Abu Dhabi Investment Co.
United Arab Emirates is a federation of seven states, including the wealthy cities of Dubai and Abu Dhabi, and it borders Saudi Arabia and Oman. Those areas are trying to supplement their energy-based economies with new business models and equine holdings, Wages said.
"A lot of countries and regions are not very welcoming," Wages said, in an interview from his Saratoga Springs residence, while home for the holidays. "I think New York, other than its taxes, has made a conscious decision to welcome foreign investment. And Saratoga, with its racing and equestrian activities, is very unique in the world."
That wealth from abroad could remake parts of Saratoga County:
• The Emirate of Abu Dhabi has committed up to $9.6 billion in Advanced Micro Devices Inc. Company officials say that will allow a joint venture, The Foundry Co., to build a $4.6 billion computer chip factory in Malta and Stillwater. The project could begin as soon as March.
• In May, a Dubai company purchased the Fasig-Tipton Co. and is now making millions of dollars in renovations to the historic four-acre horse auction site in Saratoga Springs. The company hopes to have the work done by August's annual yearling sales.
• Dubai's ruler, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, is renovating a 106-acre horse farm adjoining Saratoga Race Course. He bought the property for $17.5 million two years ago.
The private development arrives during a recession and credit crisis. Local leaders point to thousands of jobs that AMD says the chip fab factory would generate in the 215,000-person county, and additional tax revenues created by the horse-related renovations.
"Where else is the money coming from these days," Saratoga Springs Mayor Scott Johnson said. "In the state of the economy, I welcome any kind of reliable investor. Just because you're a foreigner doesn't mean you can't be a good community investor."
But a handful of county residents who have opposed the AMD deal question the reliability of the foreign investment, especially amid declining oil profits. At a recent Empire State Development Corp. hearing, Kyle York of Saratoga Springs and Bob Radliff of Stillwater criticized the project's $1.2 billion in state subsidies to build on what is mostly forest land.
"About $1 million per job is an excessively high cost for taxpayers," Radliff said. "We are highly dependent on one company, on one business model in a highly vulnerable and volatile industry." Foreign companies would siphon profits out of the state and could abruptly pull out of the area if higher profits or tax subsidiaries are offered elsewhere, Radliff said.
Area economic leaders and investors argue that money from the UAE will make Saratoga County and New York into an international player in computer chip manufacturing and the city into the world's premier horse sales site. The federal government's Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States signed off on The Foundry Co. deal this week.
The AMD offshoot will produce computer chips for companies, including AMD, at the Luther Forest Technology Campus.
Synergy Investments Ltd. — the new owner of Fasig-Tipton — is headed by Abdulla Al Habbai, a close associate of the ruler of Dubai.
"The ultimate goal is to make Saratoga the premier yearling sale in the world, plain and simple," said Boyd Browning, president of the Kentucky-based operation. "It's a substantial investment."
Currently, September sales at Keeneland in Kentucky score higher average prices for yearlings than Saratoga does, Browning said.
Wages, 45, who works in the UAE, couldn't say if additional investments in the region were planned.
Roughly 75 percent of the UAE's population are non-citizens. Investments like those into AMD are part of a long-term plan to bring industries and development to the UAE, Wages said.
"The United Emirates love Americans," he said. "They are very interested in being good friends with us. I don't think that aspect is appreciated much in the U.S."
Dennis Yusko can be reached at 454-5353 or by e-mail at dyusko@timesunion.com.
Arab investments, high-technology hopes putting international focus on county that still has rural feel
By DENNIS YUSKO, Staff writer
Click byline for more stories by writer.
First published: Saturday, January 10, 2009
SARATOGA SPRINGS — Arab executives looking to invest billions in high-technology and horses have discovered a welcoming haven in Saratoga County.
The still-rural area offers an environment that values foreign investment and its horse-racing history, important factors in making it attractive to investors in the oil-rich United Arab Emirates, said Robert Wages, executive director of private equity at the Abu Dhabi Investment Co.
United Arab Emirates is a federation of seven states, including the wealthy cities of Dubai and Abu Dhabi, and it borders Saudi Arabia and Oman. Those areas are trying to supplement their energy-based economies with new business models and equine holdings, Wages said.
"A lot of countries and regions are not very welcoming," Wages said, in an interview from his Saratoga Springs residence, while home for the holidays. "I think New York, other than its taxes, has made a conscious decision to welcome foreign investment. And Saratoga, with its racing and equestrian activities, is very unique in the world."
That wealth from abroad could remake parts of Saratoga County:
• The Emirate of Abu Dhabi has committed up to $9.6 billion in Advanced Micro Devices Inc. Company officials say that will allow a joint venture, The Foundry Co., to build a $4.6 billion computer chip factory in Malta and Stillwater. The project could begin as soon as March.
• In May, a Dubai company purchased the Fasig-Tipton Co. and is now making millions of dollars in renovations to the historic four-acre horse auction site in Saratoga Springs. The company hopes to have the work done by August's annual yearling sales.
• Dubai's ruler, Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum, is renovating a 106-acre horse farm adjoining Saratoga Race Course. He bought the property for $17.5 million two years ago.
The private development arrives during a recession and credit crisis. Local leaders point to thousands of jobs that AMD says the chip fab factory would generate in the 215,000-person county, and additional tax revenues created by the horse-related renovations.
"Where else is the money coming from these days," Saratoga Springs Mayor Scott Johnson said. "In the state of the economy, I welcome any kind of reliable investor. Just because you're a foreigner doesn't mean you can't be a good community investor."
But a handful of county residents who have opposed the AMD deal question the reliability of the foreign investment, especially amid declining oil profits. At a recent Empire State Development Corp. hearing, Kyle York of Saratoga Springs and Bob Radliff of Stillwater criticized the project's $1.2 billion in state subsidies to build on what is mostly forest land.
"About $1 million per job is an excessively high cost for taxpayers," Radliff said. "We are highly dependent on one company, on one business model in a highly vulnerable and volatile industry." Foreign companies would siphon profits out of the state and could abruptly pull out of the area if higher profits or tax subsidiaries are offered elsewhere, Radliff said.
Area economic leaders and investors argue that money from the UAE will make Saratoga County and New York into an international player in computer chip manufacturing and the city into the world's premier horse sales site. The federal government's Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States signed off on The Foundry Co. deal this week.
The AMD offshoot will produce computer chips for companies, including AMD, at the Luther Forest Technology Campus.
Synergy Investments Ltd. — the new owner of Fasig-Tipton — is headed by Abdulla Al Habbai, a close associate of the ruler of Dubai.
"The ultimate goal is to make Saratoga the premier yearling sale in the world, plain and simple," said Boyd Browning, president of the Kentucky-based operation. "It's a substantial investment."
Currently, September sales at Keeneland in Kentucky score higher average prices for yearlings than Saratoga does, Browning said.
Wages, 45, who works in the UAE, couldn't say if additional investments in the region were planned.
Roughly 75 percent of the UAE's population are non-citizens. Investments like those into AMD are part of a long-term plan to bring industries and development to the UAE, Wages said.
"The United Emirates love Americans," he said. "They are very interested in being good friends with us. I don't think that aspect is appreciated much in the U.S."
Dennis Yusko can be reached at 454-5353 or by e-mail at dyusko@timesunion.com.
Saturday, January 03, 2009
Schodack Island State Park reopens! thanks to town support and volunteers.
Volunteers help park in Schodack reopen
Schodack Island State Park was closed in the fall due to budget cuts
By KENNETH C. CROWE II, Staff writer
Click byline for more stories by writer.
First published: Wednesday, December 31, 2008
SCHODACK — Schodack Island State Park reopened Tuesday morning staffed by local volunteers in an agreement reached between the town and state.
"We're very happy to have opened the gates this morning. We're good to go. Events are planned down there,'' Supervisor Beth Secor said.
The Appalachian Trail Club will hold a snowshoeing event Thursday in the park, she said.
The state Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation shut the 1,052-acre park in October due to state budget cuts. At the time, State Parks said the park would not reopen until sometime in the spring. The park previously stayed open during the winter months.
"It is particularly gratifying to see groups and individuals coming together for their community in these challenging economic times,'' State Parks Commissioner Carol Ash said in a statement.
The town has 24 volunteers signed up to monitor the park and its buildings and town workers will keep roads plowed to the park. The town has placed a portable toilet donated by Schodack Septic in the park, Secor said.
The park's buildings and bathrooms will not be open during the winter months. The volunteers will check on the facilities and report any problems to either the town or state.
The park will be open from 8:30 a.m. to 4 p.m. daily. State Parks workers will return to staff the park in the spring.
The park, which was created in 2002, is the town's only direct access to the Hudson River.
Rensselaer County worked with the state and town to work out the details in getting the park reopened.
"The state should make clear their plans for the Schodack park in 2009. At least some level of state funding is needed and the more information on future funding, the better,'' County Legislator Martin Reid, R-Schodack, said.
Secor said she believes the community's efforts to get the park reopened will prevent it from being shut in the future.
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All Times Union materials copyright 1996-2009, Capital Newspapers Division of The Hearst Corporation, Albany, NY
Schodack Island State Park was closed in the fall due to budget cuts
By KENNETH C. CROWE II, Staff writer
Click byline for more stories by writer.
First published: Wednesday, December 31, 2008
SCHODACK — Schodack Island State Park reopened Tuesday morning staffed by local volunteers in an agreement reached between the town and state.
"We're very happy to have opened the gates this morning. We're good to go. Events are planned down there,'' Supervisor Beth Secor said.
The Appalachian Trail Club will hold a snowshoeing event Thursday in the park, she said.
The state Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation shut the 1,052-acre park in October due to state budget cuts. At the time, State Parks said the park would not reopen until sometime in the spring. The park previously stayed open during the winter months.
"It is particularly gratifying to see groups and individuals coming together for their community in these challenging economic times,'' State Parks Commissioner Carol Ash said in a statement.
The town has 24 volunteers signed up to monitor the park and its buildings and town workers will keep roads plowed to the park. The town has placed a portable toilet donated by Schodack Septic in the park, Secor said.
The park's buildings and bathrooms will not be open during the winter months. The volunteers will check on the facilities and report any problems to either the town or state.
The park will be open from 8:30 a.m. to 4 p.m. daily. State Parks workers will return to staff the park in the spring.
The park, which was created in 2002, is the town's only direct access to the Hudson River.
Rensselaer County worked with the state and town to work out the details in getting the park reopened.
"The state should make clear their plans for the Schodack park in 2009. At least some level of state funding is needed and the more information on future funding, the better,'' County Legislator Martin Reid, R-Schodack, said.
Secor said she believes the community's efforts to get the park reopened will prevent it from being shut in the future.
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All Times Union materials copyright 1996-2009, Capital Newspapers Division of The Hearst Corporation, Albany, NY
Wednesday, December 24, 2008
Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah and joy in the New Year from your Save the Victoria Pool Society
Thank you all for your tremendous support always in loving the Victoria Pool, Saratoga Spa State Park&Saratoga Springs.
Board Members:
Louise, Andrew, Stanton, Carole, Maureen, Barbara, Roger, Doug, Paul, Peter, Virginia & Ed, Anita, Bob, Holly, Rick, Tom.
Saturday, December 20, 2008
2 views on SPAC decision to shorten NYCBallet season to 2 wks. in 2009
Home » Opinion » Letters to the Editor
Dance continues to be important at SPAC
Published: Friday, December 19, 2008
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Editor:
Two recent letters to the editor have compared the recent decision to shorten the New York City Ballet's 2009 SPAC season to the effort by the previous administration in 2004 to eliminate the residency. I believe the comparison is misplaced for several reasons.
The 2004 effort to eliminate the residency would have effectively ended the 40-year partnership between SPAC and the New York City Ballet, one of our founding companies. In contrast, the current decision preserves the ballet's summer residency, and with it the opportunity for SPAC audiences to continue to experience the artistry of one of the world's premier dance companies. It is also important to note that the 2004 decision was made by SPAC's prior president and board without the support of the ballet. Yet the decision to shorten the ballet's 2009 SPAC season was presented by the New York City Ballet and then approved by SPAC's board.
Given the current economic uncertainties, both the ballet and SPAC felt a shorter and less costly season made sense at this time. One benefit of the shorter program will be the opportunity to expand the diversity of SPAC's dance programming. Recognizing this region's rich dance heritage and devoted following, we are committed to adding new dance programming in what would have been the third week of the ballet. Expanding the variety of SPAC's programming in both dance and music is a goal that we have steadily pursued in recent years, and that will continue to be a priority in 2009.
MARCIA J. WHITE
President and Executive Director
Saratoga Performing Arts Center
Letter: SPAC needs wake-up call if it is going to fill seats
Saturday, December 20, 2008 5:16 AM EST
My sister recently tried to buy a gift certificate to SPAC for me as a Christmas present, knowing the loss of half-price tickets for memberships and the elimination of other discounts such as entertainment book coupons by SPAC management had forced us to severely curtail our trips to the NYCB and the Philadelphia Orchestra.
What should have been a simple process became an exercise in frustration when the Web site directed her to a phone number that was left unanswered and messages unreturned, and finally a mailing directing her to buy a membership, something I refuse to do until SPAC takes a more realistic approach to their ticket prices.
Finally, in frustration, my sister called Proctors who answered the phone in one ring and were both helpful and gracious in her procurement for a gift certificate. I think SPAC needs a wake up call; their customer service is appalling, their prices are outrageous and I feel the loss of one week of the ballet is only the beginning. I wonder if all the rock show patrons will appreciate the muti-million dollar new paint job. If only that money was used to subsidize ticket prices, the seats might be filled again.
John Tighe
Milton
Dance continues to be important at SPAC
Published: Friday, December 19, 2008
Larger Text
Smaller Text
RSS
Editor:
Two recent letters to the editor have compared the recent decision to shorten the New York City Ballet's 2009 SPAC season to the effort by the previous administration in 2004 to eliminate the residency. I believe the comparison is misplaced for several reasons.
The 2004 effort to eliminate the residency would have effectively ended the 40-year partnership between SPAC and the New York City Ballet, one of our founding companies. In contrast, the current decision preserves the ballet's summer residency, and with it the opportunity for SPAC audiences to continue to experience the artistry of one of the world's premier dance companies. It is also important to note that the 2004 decision was made by SPAC's prior president and board without the support of the ballet. Yet the decision to shorten the ballet's 2009 SPAC season was presented by the New York City Ballet and then approved by SPAC's board.
Given the current economic uncertainties, both the ballet and SPAC felt a shorter and less costly season made sense at this time. One benefit of the shorter program will be the opportunity to expand the diversity of SPAC's dance programming. Recognizing this region's rich dance heritage and devoted following, we are committed to adding new dance programming in what would have been the third week of the ballet. Expanding the variety of SPAC's programming in both dance and music is a goal that we have steadily pursued in recent years, and that will continue to be a priority in 2009.
MARCIA J. WHITE
President and Executive Director
Saratoga Performing Arts Center
Letter: SPAC needs wake-up call if it is going to fill seats
Saturday, December 20, 2008 5:16 AM EST
My sister recently tried to buy a gift certificate to SPAC for me as a Christmas present, knowing the loss of half-price tickets for memberships and the elimination of other discounts such as entertainment book coupons by SPAC management had forced us to severely curtail our trips to the NYCB and the Philadelphia Orchestra.
What should have been a simple process became an exercise in frustration when the Web site directed her to a phone number that was left unanswered and messages unreturned, and finally a mailing directing her to buy a membership, something I refuse to do until SPAC takes a more realistic approach to their ticket prices.
Finally, in frustration, my sister called Proctors who answered the phone in one ring and were both helpful and gracious in her procurement for a gift certificate. I think SPAC needs a wake up call; their customer service is appalling, their prices are outrageous and I feel the loss of one week of the ballet is only the beginning. I wonder if all the rock show patrons will appreciate the muti-million dollar new paint job. If only that money was used to subsidize ticket prices, the seats might be filled again.
John Tighe
Milton
Saturday, December 13, 2008
The money to open the Victoria Pool Memorial Day once again has literally been going down the SEWER for years! Shameful.
Publication:Schenectady Daily Gazette; Date:Dec 13, 2008; Section:Local News; Page:12
SARATOGA SPRINGS
Spa State Park gets a break on county sewer bill
BY STEPHEN WILLIAMS Gazette Reporter Reach Gazette reporter Stephen Williams at 885-6705 or swilliams@dailygazette.net.
Officials at Saratoga Spa State Park have won a concession from Saratoga County that should save about $54,000 on the park’s sewer bill next year.
The county sewer district has agreed to revise its billing method for the park, using actual flow fi gures rather than billing based on peak use, which appears to have inflated the bill.
That means the park — facing the same budget struggles as all other state agencies — will see its sewer bill drop from $98,700 to an estimated $44,100 with the January bill.
“This level of solid expense cut could really help us,” said Alane Chinian, regional director of the state Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation.
The sewer bill is the park’s single largest outside bill, she said.
Chinian had complained about the size of the bill at a rate hearing held last month by county sewer commissioners, had her request for a reduction denied, then appealed the rate set by the commissioners to the county Board of Supervisors.
That appeal led to negotiating the new billing method.
The billing was approved Wednesday by the county board’s Law and Finance Committee and should be routinely approved by the Board of Supervisors Tuesday in Ballston Spa as part of a package of sewer rates.
“This is an elegant solution,” Chinian said. “It charges us for what we put in, and that’s fair.”
The 2,500-acre park just south of the city includes the Gideon Putnam Hotel and Conference Center, the Saratoga Performing Arts Center, the Hall of Springs, several mineral baths, a golf course and two museums. All those facilities are under the state park’s single sewer bill so its sewage flow varies greatly, depending on attendance at SPAC concerts and other activities.
Chinian said last month that there’s also snow-melt running into the sewer lines in the spring, but the park staff is trying to fi x the problem, which is common in aging sewers.
The sewer district will be losing revenue but it won’t mean a significant impact within the $8.9 million sewer rate levy, said James DiPasquale, the district’s executive director.
“It will not affect other users,” said William J. Davis, chairman of the county sewer commission.
Nearly all of the district’s 65,000 customers pay a flat fee annually, based on how much sewage a single-family house is expected to generate, or a multiple of that number for multi-unit buildings and businesses.
The park’s billing was different in that it paid based on a calculation of its annual maximum daily flow, even though an actual metered measurement was available. The meter reading will now be used to calculate the following year’s bill.
“This is the only user this really applies to in this big a manner,” said County Attorney Mark M. Rider
SARATOGA SPRINGS
Spa State Park gets a break on county sewer bill
BY STEPHEN WILLIAMS Gazette Reporter Reach Gazette reporter Stephen Williams at 885-6705 or swilliams@dailygazette.net.
Officials at Saratoga Spa State Park have won a concession from Saratoga County that should save about $54,000 on the park’s sewer bill next year.
The county sewer district has agreed to revise its billing method for the park, using actual flow fi gures rather than billing based on peak use, which appears to have inflated the bill.
That means the park — facing the same budget struggles as all other state agencies — will see its sewer bill drop from $98,700 to an estimated $44,100 with the January bill.
“This level of solid expense cut could really help us,” said Alane Chinian, regional director of the state Office of Parks, Recreation and Historic Preservation.
The sewer bill is the park’s single largest outside bill, she said.
Chinian had complained about the size of the bill at a rate hearing held last month by county sewer commissioners, had her request for a reduction denied, then appealed the rate set by the commissioners to the county Board of Supervisors.
That appeal led to negotiating the new billing method.
The billing was approved Wednesday by the county board’s Law and Finance Committee and should be routinely approved by the Board of Supervisors Tuesday in Ballston Spa as part of a package of sewer rates.
“This is an elegant solution,” Chinian said. “It charges us for what we put in, and that’s fair.”
The 2,500-acre park just south of the city includes the Gideon Putnam Hotel and Conference Center, the Saratoga Performing Arts Center, the Hall of Springs, several mineral baths, a golf course and two museums. All those facilities are under the state park’s single sewer bill so its sewage flow varies greatly, depending on attendance at SPAC concerts and other activities.
Chinian said last month that there’s also snow-melt running into the sewer lines in the spring, but the park staff is trying to fi x the problem, which is common in aging sewers.
The sewer district will be losing revenue but it won’t mean a significant impact within the $8.9 million sewer rate levy, said James DiPasquale, the district’s executive director.
“It will not affect other users,” said William J. Davis, chairman of the county sewer commission.
Nearly all of the district’s 65,000 customers pay a flat fee annually, based on how much sewage a single-family house is expected to generate, or a multiple of that number for multi-unit buildings and businesses.
The park’s billing was different in that it paid based on a calculation of its annual maximum daily flow, even though an actual metered measurement was available. The meter reading will now be used to calculate the following year’s bill.
“This is the only user this really applies to in this big a manner,” said County Attorney Mark M. Rider
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